Join us in this episode of “The Dan Lok Show – Billion Dollar Startup” as we sit down with Matt Klepac, the co-founder and CEO of Vertify.com. Matt has more than two decades of experience in the tech industry, and his company is revolutionizing the way revenue teams work by providing innovative solutions for data management and integration.
Discover how Vertify.com is helping businesses streamline their sales and marketing processes by optimizing their data management practices.
Matt Klepac is a technology entrepreneur and the co-founder and CEO of Vertify, a software company that provides solutions for data management, integration, and optimization to help businesses improve their sales and marketing operations. With over 20 years of experience in technology and business development, Matt is a recognized thought leader in the industry and has been featured in publications such as Forbes and Inc. Magazine.
Matt’s passion for technology and innovation has driven his career, and he has worked with numerous startups and established companies to develop and implement cutting-edge solutions that improve business processes and drive growth. At Vertify, Matt and his team are focused on helping businesses make data-driven decisions by providing powerful solutions that integrate and optimize their data.
[0:28] Who is Matt Klepac?
[1:24] How Matt got into the SaaS industry.
[5:45] What exactly does REV Ops mean?
[9:03] On which data should a company concentrate?
[12:20] Your company needs to be focused.
[14:26] More companies are focussing on REV Ops, but why is that?
[15:50] What are things B2B companies struggle with?
[17:18] How does Verify work?
[19:46] Was it hard to educate the market on why they need Vertify?
[24:30] What you need to do to make it easy for customers to buy from you.
[25:55] What were the struggles Vertify faced in the beginning?
[26:50] Did Covid help or hinder the business?
[28:25] How Matt sees the future of Vertify
[30:00] The Power of Core Values
[33:20] What does lifetime value look at Vertify?
[36:30] What milestone has Vertify reached in the last years?
[38:20] What you should pay attention to when investing in software companies?
[41:35] Get in touch with Matt Klepac and Vertify
Welcome to Billion Dollar Startup, where we bring you visionaries and disruptors who have started scaled, sold, or invested in a billion dollar startup, also known as a unicorn. We also feature tech founders who are building the next billion dollar startup. Billion Dollar Startup is a unique podcast sponsored by Dragon X Capital, the venture capital firm that concentrates on seed and early stage tech companies with the X Factor.
Today on the show, Dan interviews Matt Clay Pack, the CEO of Vertify, a company that is transforming the way revenue teams work and win their revenue Operations Intelligence platform gives every revenue team the ability to tap into the benefits of their customer data connect mission critical revenue apps, and harness prescive. Next action insights to drive direction. Matt is a B2B technology veteran with over 16 years of experience in the industry. He’s focused on building company culture, overseeing business operations, and forging strong relationships with employees, customers and partners. He’s also an avid golfer, hunter lover of the Houston Astros and accomplished professional opera singer. Join Dan and Matt as they delve into the story of Vertifi and how it’s changing the game for revenue teams.
Dan Lok:
Welcome back to Billion Dollars Startup. Today we have an other CEO from one of our active portfolio companies through Dragon X Capital. We have the CEO from Verify. So Matt, welcome to the show.
Matt Klepac:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Dan Lok:
Super excited. We’re gonna dive into talking about revenue and revenue ops, so maybe share with us a little bit your story and your background and, and how did you get into the industry.
Matt Klepac:
Absolutely. That’s great. Well, let me start by saying thanks, reiterating that. Thanks for having me. Uh, pleasure to do this, and obviously a pleasure to work with you, um, outside of the podcast world, but, uh, no. So, so my background, I would say is a little different, uh, as an entrepreneur, as a leader than most. Um, I’m formerly educated in both business and music, and so I spent, uh, I spent many years, uh, singing, um, opera professionally. Oh, wow. Um, which, which, you know, had its highs and its lows. Um, is that why
Dan Lok:
Your voice sounds so good? <laugh>? That was so sexy. Voice is what it is. Sexy
Matt Klepac:
Voice. That’s, that’s what I’m talking about. <laugh>. No, it’s, uh, yeah, I guess it’s, it’s trained for that, but, uh, I’m not doing it anymore. Uh, I did it for many years. Loved it. Um, it was a passion of mine. I learned a lot. I learned a lot that has influenced who I am today as a leader. Um, I’ve been told no as a singer more times than you could shake a stick at. Right. And, uh, that certainly has put me, um, into a position as an entrepreneur and as a leader, um, to kind of take on what I’m taking on today. So that, that kind of, through that, I was very fortunate to always kind of work both sides of the brain. I worked at companies that allowed me to, um, uh, you know, stretch that singing muscle and, and travel the world and kind of work both sides.
So, um, grew up in the revenue, uh, leadership and operations, leadership world. Uh, and, and through that process I really noticed that there were a lot of problems, uh, with, with revenue team alignment number one, and with, um, the operations of revenue, team data. And, uh, through that, you know, it was time for me to say, okay, it’s time for me to do my thing. Um, and, and I was living in New York at the time, uh, and, uh, went on a journey because my, my, my business background is, has a lot to do with transitioning businesses from services businesses to product businesses.
Dan Lok:
So productize.
Matt Klepac:
Yep, that’s right. To productize businesses. And, um, and with that, uh, you know, I, I kind of, I, I lean into that and I said, I have a blueprint for this. There’s, there’s some good things here. Um, let’s, let’s do that again. And so I started looking for businesses, um, you know, that were kind of in the world that I was looking to get into that had a product, maybe didn’t realize they had a product, or had started to try to push that in market. Um, and I found a great company in Austin that was a services-based business. Um, and they were doing marketing automations, CRM implementations and migrations. Um, and so they had get kind of tool set that they had built. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and, you know, coming into that was able to take the business, the services business from them and transition it to a product business.
Mm-hmm. Um, and, and that comes with a lot of change. Uh, we changed the entire team and the entire methodology and everything else, um, but really took it because there was an underlying product there, um, that took those two things that I mentioned. It took the, the alignment challenge that existed, um, and the, the operations of the data, um, the challenge that existed there and married the two and brought ’em together. So that’s really, that’s really where Vertifi was born. My co-founder was in Austin. I was in New York. So I moved here and we, we started the business. Um, from that perspective, Wayne Lopez is my co-founder, and he is, uh, he’s kind of the product visionary product mind, right? And, and I come from the business side and I’m the idea, um, visionary and the, and the, and the business side leader. So, um, that’s really kind of where the vision was born. And the vision ultimately is to reinvent how people share customer data, how they share knowledge and, uh, and inspire that revenue to ultimately grow. And so that vision influences our mission. Yes. Which is, which is to help mid-market and enterprise companies streamline revenue operations and scale faster. Um, maybe
Dan Lok:
Let’s share with the audiences in case they don’t know what Rev ops is. It’s, it’s like a, for some it’s like a new buzzword, right? Is it, is that my sales team? Is it like, how does that work? Cuz I, I wasn’t familiar with that term just a number of years ago, right? Yeah. It, few years ago that we, now we, within my own company, we have a ref ops team, right? Yep.
Matt Klepac:
Yep.
Dan Lok:
Educate audience a bit on that.
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. So, so I’ll take a step back and kind of say, okay, you know, we always Right. Had an eye on alignment Yes. And the need to fix that, that revenue team alignment. But Covid and a few other factors kind of accelerated that. Yes. And kind of, kind of, uh, brought the star that is automation to start rising a little bit quicker. Um, and, and many businesses, uh, out there right now, right? They’re looking to cut costs. They’re looking to optimize, um, for not only scale, but for survivability and, and to compete in market. And automation is obviously the, what we see as being a, a big key to that. Um, data is ultimately a mid-market and enterprise business’s biggest asset, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, but only if you can take that data and turn it into information, um, that, that’s why this is kind of the perfect storm leading into rev ops as we see it. So let me start with what rev ops is not. Yes. Because I think that that’s a big deal. I think we, we, there’s so many definitions of what Rev is, a
Dan Lok:
Lot, a lot of misconceptions as well.
Matt Klepac:
A lot of misconceptions. So, so let me just start with, rev ops is not, and obviously this is me and this is our perspective at Vertify, but it’s not new. Okay. Um, it’s just been siloed, right? It’s not new. Um, it’s not alignment. Alignment is a result. It’s not a methodology, it’s not a fancy word for sales ops or marketing ops. Um, and it cannot be started quickly or stopped quickly, right? So that’s really what, it’s not now what Rev ops is, it is the science of revenue growth. Okay? So, so let’s just take a baseball analogy for a second. A lot of baseball fans, I’m a baseball fan, um, Moneyball, right? Moneyball replicate and repeat a winning season. That’s what it’s all about, right? Through processes that you’re building to, uh, repeat a winning season and also developing tools to disseminate that data. Hmm.
Um, and that’s, that’s really, that’s what rev ops is for the business, the science of revenue growth. You’re trying to replicate and repeat a winning strategy for revenue growth. You’re trying to build processes around that. Um, and you’re developing tools to disseminate that data and automate that data. Um, and that’s really where vitify fits in as this rev ops automation system of record for rev ops teams to help them disseminate and turn data into trusted information. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that gives you an idea. It’s all about revenue growth and, and, you know, you’re, you’re folding the concept of, um, rev ops across sales, marketing, and customer success. Um, and you’re putting tools in place and processes in place, um, to help that entire umbrella work together, uh, to achieve growth.
Dan Lok:
That makes sense. I think within my, my own journey, my own company at first, you know, got a sales team, and then you have all this data, and then I, I brought on automation specialist, right? And then all the CM stuff at growth for millions, tens of millions, right? Multiple tens of millions. And I didn’t even know we need, like now with all this data, it’s like too much data
Matt Klepac:
<laugh>,
Dan Lok:
And how do we, how do we make sense of it? How do we make decisions? Yeah. From like, it’s like a pile of stuff. Sure. But we wanna be better. We want to, like I said, replicate kind of repeat successful
Matt Klepac:
Actions. Yeah. Right, right. Obviously you wanna learn from that data Yeah. Uh, and make decisions. But what you have the data to make decisions on off of, right. But yes, but if you can’t trust it, which is a big problem, right? All that data can turn into a mess. Um, it doesn’t have to be that way. Um, there are ways to do this through people, process and technologies, technology that, uh, allows you to be
Dan Lok:
Successful. Maybe me share with us how maybe a, a case study, a client example, what problems they’re having. They, they come to you, uh, they use the software and that ha how that has impacted bottom line.
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. So ultimately, um, you know, these companies, every company we work with, right? We’re, we’re, we’re very focused on the mid-market enterprise business, right? Yes. Can you start, you look at growth companies, so, so north of 10 million in revenue mm-hmm. <affirmative>, as they’re scaling up, they’re gonna have a sales team, they’re gonna have a marketing team, they’re gonna have a customer success team, right? Yes. Um, they’re gonna have siloed applications. So you’re gonna have multiple marketing apps, um, doing multiple different things. But just take your automation platform as a start. So Marketo, HubSpot, part op, whatever that is. Yes. Right? You’re gonna, you’re gonna have that, your sales team is gonna have their CRM, right? That system of record for the business. So Salesforce, whatever. But they’re also gonna have sales enablement. Yeah. They’re gonna have, uh, sales Loft or outreach, um, your customer success apps, right?
They’re gonna have those, right. We use vitally internally, but there’s many different customer success apps that are out there. Well, what happens is, is all of that information starts to get siloed, remain siloed. And for the mid-market enterprise business, you know, every application claims that they have a native integration. Yeah. And, and those natives fall short when you start getting into the, to the, to the bus, to the bigger businesses, right? Um, custom objects, custom fields, tell me one name, one company in the mid-market that’s a hundred million business that doesn’t have a custom Salesforce instance, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and when that starts happening, those natives can’t keep up. Or, or you’re a business that’s acquiring other businesses, and now you have 10 Salesforce instances spread throughout the globe. And all of those, those teams and those systems deserve and, and need, um, fundamentally to be able to work off of the same information. And so our customers, um, that are out there, customers like Tyson and others, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re using us to pull that data into one place and then set up their workflows for better lead management workflows, better upsell, cross-sell workflows, um, so that data is shared amongst teams in real time so that they can make better, more informed, timely decisions around those different aspects. Right? Whether it’s pre-sales or post-sales, whether it’s retention or not, it’s all of that data that is very critical to run your business, uh, and to do it effectively.
Dan Lok:
And, and now through, like with ratify, there are many aspects in terms of sales and revenue, right? Why you chose to kind of focus on just wrap off’s automation, like why you choose to like this particular niche.
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. Well, I think it, I think it’s number one important as an entrepreneur, as a leader, uh, growing a business to be focused, I think, I think focus matters. Um, if you’re trying to be everything to everybody, uh, good luck. I’m not gonna say you’re not gonna make it, but good luck. Yes. Um, I’ve seen that written, uh, and sure, some people can achieve that, but we, we decided to really focus. And, and on top of that, the, the market size is, is huge. Yes. Um, specifically and growing. And growing. I mean, when we started it was, we, we had coined this idea, this phrase, Wayne and myself, around the rev ops revolution. We said eventually there’s going to be a rev ops revolution. Yeah. And, and, you know, it’s accelerating now, and it’s growing. And so, so that’s why it’s focus, it’s, it’s, um, the problem is big enough.
Uh, it’s, it’s plenty big for us to grow with it. Um, the need for, we’ve also seen this evolution of, you know, early on there was a need for these growing scaling SMBs and mid-market companies only to, to get rid of kind of the it, um, you know, uh, side of things. And they wanted to own their business. They needed to own their business. They couldn’t, they were waiting in line with it. Yes. Um, well, that’s changing across the spectrum. Now. We’re talking to billion dollar enterprises that are saying, Hey, it is in line saying, Hey, I need, I need something that can solve this and a solution set for business as opposed to a tool set for it. Yeah. Um, and so that’s where we are. There’s a lot of, you know, historic iPASS integration platform as a service players, Informatica, boomie, that are very technical applications that work well as a tool set for it, but don’t translate as a solution set for business. And, and that’s why we built it the way we did.
Dan Lok:
It’s interesting because part of the reasons why we have made a decision to, to back certify is from a number of years I would see con, I mean, there are conferences on like sales, of course on marketing, and then I noticed they’re now conferences on just rev ops, right? Sure. Yeah. And then companies, they start having these positions, which they didn’t have before. Like director of rev ops, right? Totally. VP of rev ops. Well, we didn’t, they didn’t have those before. Well, that’s, that didn’t exist. There’s a need there. There’s a need for it. There’s a, a problem within the company that they, they need a dedicated team or a dedicated person, a leader, to go just focus on that. So now, across the board, like the bigger companies, they all have that now. I think it trickles down to now even the mid, mid-size companies, okay, we need, we need a tool like
Matt Klepac:
This. A hundred percent. And I equate it to look at DevOps 10 years ago.
Dan Lok:
Yeah. Yes.
Matt Klepac:
Yes. Look at that. And, and that’s where we are. We’re at the beginning of Rev op. And, and being that rev ops automation system of record, uh, is really where we see, and, and being kind of on the forefront of that, it’s, it’s a, it’s a reinvention of the way we think as business leaders. Um, and, and the automation, the technology has to, has to match that as well. And so that’s where we’re at.
Dan Lok:
And when you work with B2B companies, what do you see this struggle most with in when it comes to like, automation?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah, so <laugh> good question. And, and there’s a maturity curve here. Okay. So, so, um, in the beginning it’s literally, Hey, I need to connect system A and system B. Yeah. That’s it. That’s what
Dan Lok:
They, so they, they talk to each other. At least
Matt Klepac:
That’s their, that’s their problem, right? Uh, and, and that is their initiative. Yeah. Connect this, right? And then it’s, it’s our job. And it’s the industry’s job to educate, Hey, that’s just the start. And so there’s this ma mature maturity curve of start here, connection, collection of data. That’s the first part, right? And then you have to evolve into, okay, well, if we’ve just connected these systems, if we’ve now connected these systems, how many workflows can I look at rolling into this vast data set to automate? And how can I orchestrate and schedule this information? And how can I keep up good data hygiene and cleansing on the fly between these systems? Yes. And, and so it’s an evolution. It starts with connection, and then it turns into, oh my goodness, I didn’t realize just how powerful this was. And this could be. Um, and they usually, it’s about week three of onboarding where they say, whoa. Right. Um, there’s more here. And then it’s our job to nurture that and to, to build that into the product so that they can have better usability long-term and, and kind of grow with that and, and grow with that realization and become better rev ops professionals, um, you know, as, as they move forward.
Dan Lok:
Hmm. And just again, for audience, exactly. How does then vert work in terms of a software?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. So in terms of a software, um, we immediately connect into, we, a a lot of our customers are, um, either either moving to different systems or they have systems in place and they’re siloed. They’re buying something for the first time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like an automation platform, like a marketing automation platform, or changing CRMs or whatever mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so when they come into us and we, we, we launch, um, Vertifi automatically connects into those applications, your, your systems that, that are involved. Right? So it could just be starting off, off with, with marketing automation and C R M. That could be the first step. Or you could be layering in your support applications, your CS applications, um, your sales enablement, whatever it might be, finance. Um, but we start where they need to start, right? Where there they, where they are on that maturity curve. Um, we automatically pull the data in, um, nothing for the customer to do on that front.
And then we work through an onboarding process, uh, with them. Um, with, through our onboarding partners, we’ve built a, a ecosystem of partners, um, that, that onboard the vitify platform alongside our customers. And it’s really a training exercise more than anything. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and, and we’re training them how to use it, how to be kind of vitify automators. Um, and it’s a, it’s a mapping exercise based on your business processes. How are we gonna map the data, um, to, to your specific needs and workflows that you want to accomplish. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and of course there are templates and there are things that roll into it to, to start us off. But everybody has a little bit of a configuration change, and that’s what onboarding’s all about. Yes. And so we do that. We get ’em, we get ’em, we’re, we’re believers in a quick time to value.
Um, and so the application was built for that. So zero coding. And then once it’s live, um, and your data is flowing between applications, um, it’s literally, um, kind of set to the side and you go in there to create more workflows, new workflows, to optimize the workflows that you have in place. Um, and, and that’s really kinda how it works. So we make Marketo better by getting at the data that it needs. We make NetSuite better by getting it the data that it needs, but ultimately getting it in the hands of the people, um, that can do something with that data. Uh, and that’s really, that’s really kind of how we works.
Dan Lok:
So we’re not competing with all these other, other tools. We, we it is, it’s complimentary, right?
Matt Klepac:
Complimentary. A hundred percent. Yep.
Dan Lok:
Yeah. That’s what we want. Yeah. Yeah. And do you find it in the beginning, what, what, what were some of the challenges, cuz I guess a few years ago when, when you started, uh, was it difficult to penetrate the market and educate people on, Hey, here’s why you need Vertifi? Or was it, was it like, oh no, it’s actually quite easy. I you show it to them, they kind of get it. Like, what was that like?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah, so, so, you know, I’ll kind of, uh, take a different approach to answer this, but we, we entered the market a little bit differently, um, because of that challenge that we saw. We saw there being a barrier to entry because the education wasn’t there in market. Yes. Correct. Meaning if we went direct outbound, um, to our consumer at that point.
Dan Lok:
Cause people don’t even know they need it.
Matt Klepac:
Correct. Yeah. And so what we said is, let’s start, and I’ll get into where we started here. Uh, and then let’s start, let’s be on an education, let’s be on an education journey of educating a market. Um, coming from a marketing background, thought leadership and education is huge for me, right? Yeah. And so educating the direction of the market, being the educator of, of automation, data automation is who we really kind of fundamentally are. And so in the beginning, instead of going direct, we said, let’s start with channel partners, right? Mm-hmm. Hmm. <affirmative>. And so what, what I mean by that is, once again, we make these systems better mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so if, if Marketo is a great rocket ship mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, but needs fuel to launch that fuel being data, um, hey, Marketo, we should be working together. We should be that data refinery that fuels you and fuels your customers and allows that system to really take off. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so that was the initial pitch to them, uh, before they were acquired by Adobe. Yeah. And we jumped on board with them and, and then now it’s, it’s broadened to about five very specific, um, distribution channel partnerships, uh, we’re sold on Adobe paper. Um, so, you know,
Dan Lok:
Weren’t they owned by Vista before?
Matt Klepac:
They were, they were, right? Yeah. And, and we were, we were a part of that mix then. Uh, and then when Adobe acquired ’em, we transitioned into Adobe, which was great. Oh, wow. Um, big shift. And so now there’s a ton of expansion going on with Adobe and what we’re doing there. But the channel partners were very pivotal in the beginning for us because of that. Right. Because the consumer had been fed this marketing automation vision for 10 years at that point. Yes. Yes. They knew what marketing automation was, and they knew they needed it. Yeah. And so, so we basically hitched a ride and said, well, if you’re gonna do that, you’re gonna need this too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and so we’ve been selling alongside Adobe and HubSpot, um, and which is
Dan Lok:
A very smart, smart move. It’s a very smart move.
Matt Klepac:
Well, you know, it, it kind of goes back to the, Hey, we’re transitioning from service to product. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, how do we do this? We bootstrapped for many years mm-hmm. <affirmative>, how do we do this in a way that makes sense? And we, we can’t go build a huge outbound team, plus we didn’t feel like it was right. We didn’t feel like the message would resonate and we, we fall flat and it would hit too much education required mm-hmm. <affirmative> in the early days. So, so now we’re in a place where we’re starting to, we’re, we’re continuing to expand partnerships. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Wayne is in charge of partnership expansion Yes. Here at Vertifi. And he’s building every week. I feel like we’re signing a new partner. Yes. Um, so there’s, there’s new partnerships coming in. We’re already a global business. Yes. So reaching those partnerships and we’re able to, to extend our partnership reach through the partnerships we already have. Nice. Right. So through
Dan Lok:
Adobe and you already see the new partners. Cause see, hey, you have worked with all these amazing channel partners, right?
Matt Klepac:
Correct. That’s credibility. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? I mean, and, and we’ve had Adobe, um, reps and senior executives say to their other services partners, Hey, you should be working with Vertifi. Yeah. And that connection is made and then, you know, nice. The handoff is there. So Nice. We’re continuing to expand channel and, and, and, and all the while we’ve been slowly investing in education. Mm-hmm. Um, and that education results in seo Yes. Which results in inbound. Right. And so, no, no. Not by any means are we where we will be or need to be or want to be, um, at scale, but we are now investing more in that mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and we see we’re starting to see the fruits of the inbound efforts. In fact, we’re gonna be launching a whole new addition digitally on our website with use cases Nice. And everything else in the next 30 days. So there’s a lot of work there. Yes. Um, and then we’re starting to very slowly experiment with, with the outbound demand gen aspects of what we
Dan Lok:
Do. Yeah. It’s beautiful order.
Matt Klepac:
So, so three le three legs to that stool. And we’re, we’re working through them accordingly. Um, and we, we think that those are gonna be the areas that, you know, from start to finish, really start to, to, you know, help us scale rapidly.
Dan Lok:
I I think it’s, it’s, it’s exa it is the right strategy. A lot of the founders, um, that we talk to, we, we tell them the same thing. I mean, and educate a client is a better client. Yeah. And if you can in, in, in integrate some sort of thought leadership and education within what you do, it just positions you as the authority and expert. Right? Correct. If you educate them on automation or rev ops when they need the software, it’s kind of very easy to bring up that in conversations, Hey, you are the one who educates me on this. Yeah, of course. I would buy your software. It’s quite simple, right?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah, totally. I mean, HubSpot did a great job.
Dan Lok:
Yeah. Yes.
Matt Klepac:
Setting, setting that blueprint for us as marketers. I mean, I saw it early on as a marketer, and I was like, man, this is, this is great. Like this is repeatable. You can do this. And they, they did a nice job of that.
Dan Lok:
And they did.
Matt Klepac:
Um, I think we’re, we benefit from some of that success that they had there.
Dan Lok:
Actually, I had, uh, on the, uh, my other show I had, uh, uh, Brian, uh, CEO of, uh, of HubSpot, of interview him as well. So he shares his journey and it is exactly that, right? They, yep. And I love, uh, his, his vision, his, he walks to talk, he talks about content marketing, he talks about <inaudible>. That’s what they do.
Matt Klepac:
That’s what they do.
Dan Lok:
Like exactly what they do. They, they do what they’re telling you to do, and that’s what works for their business. It used the same tool.
Matt Klepac:
Bingo.
Dan Lok:
Which is amazing. Right. I love that. I love that. Yeah. What were some of the challenges, uh, when you started Vertifi, and how did you overcome those?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah, so I mean there, there’s, there’s multiple things, right? There was that education piece. It was, Hey, how are we gonna do this? Um, that was, that was a factor. There’s no doubt. Um, there was the fact that it’s, it’s not easy to transition. It’s possible. And, and the benefits are great. It’s not easy to transition a services business to product business.
Dan Lok:
Yes. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a process. I
Matt Klepac:
Mean, it’s a process and, and, you know, it requires, um, making hard decisions when it comes to people. Yes. Um, you know, it, but, but you have to have the right mindset, uh, in that, in that. So that was a challenge. Um, and it took, I would say about a year and a half to really get us to where we felt like, Hey, we are a product minded, product focused business. Hmm. Um, you know, I think Covid taught us a lot too, some of the challenges there. Um, not to mention we
Dan Lok:
Did, did you, do you think Covid helped the business or hurt the business?
Matt Klepac:
I think it’s helping it now. Ah. Um, so in the middle of it, hard to see, you know, where it was helping, where it was hurting. Now we did, frankly, we had some hospitality and CU and retail customers that just completely went under, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so that in the middle of it hurt us, right? Yes. But we were, we’re very, you know, we’re, we’re focused on the long term. We, we just went into bootstrap mode and we said, Hey, we’ve done this before. Let’s do it again. And, and we, we’ll, we’ll get through it. And, and ultimately let’s just be there for our customers and help them get through it. Yes. Yes. Um, but, you know, another challenge we face is at the beginning of Covid in February of 2020, we acquired another business. Yeah. Um, you know, and that business turned out just like many acquisitions.
Uh, they’re, they’re not, you know, what they’re, what they’re portrayed as, uh, a lot of times. And then you fall into covid and the things that affected that business was a data business. So selling data, contact data mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and, and that took a, took a bit of a hit. And so, you know, we had to make some tough decisions through that process and everything else to, to fold some of those things, uh, and, and move away, move beyond, um, them, but all the right decisions in the long run. And, and we’ve made a lot of mistakes. I think that’s, that’s part of being a, a, uh, entrepreneur. Yes. But you have to learn from those mistakes, and you have to be able to admit those mistakes. And as a leader, um, it’s your job to own them and make sure your team knows they’re on you. Right. And so that’s been a big part of it for us. Uh, and, and, you know, I, I think that’s been, we’ve had challenges, but we’ve had some great milestones along the way as well.
Dan Lok:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and what’s your outlook for, like, say, this year or next couple years?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah, so, so obviously looking to, looking to double revenue this year, that’s kind of, uh, where we’re at looking to, looking to double revenue. And, uh, because we’re bootstrapped, uh, yes. For so many years, we also have a mind and an eye towards profitability to own our, our, our future a little bit, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> to own our valuation, to put ourselves in a really good position mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, to work with the right investors, right? Yes. I mean, it’s very important, um, working with the right people. Uh, people are what make our products successful people, what make our business successful. And it’s the same thing with investors. Um, you know, they’re a part of that too. So, uh, that, that’s, that’s kind of how I see it. But we’re, we’re, we’re trying to set ourselves up to a path to profitability over the next 12 to 18 months, which put us in a position of, um, okay, what’s next? We’re gonna go, um, from doubling to, uh, through the multiple distribution channels that we now have in place, uh, to, to much more rapid growth from there.
Dan Lok:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we we’re happy to be part of it. We’re happy to, to, to back you, to be part of, you know, the team and to invest in you and question cuz uh, a little behind the scenes story. Cuz when, when I, when we talk with you, one of the things that I think impress us the most, and we say this on the show quite a few times, we don’t invest in the product, we invest in the people, we invest in teams. Right. Um, and you know, if you remember, we, we went through an exercise of looking at the personality type, the team that you hired, things like that. Yep, yep. Let’s start talking with my partner Ivan, and say, Hey, Matt hires very well, like the people <laugh> with, with the, with the profile, with the personality. This is a, this is a good team. Just share with us, like, how did you build that team and what’s, what’s your leadership style?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. Uh, man, the leadership style thing is, I think a loaded question, but how, how do we build the team? Um, so I’m a big believer in, uh, the book Traction, Gino Wickman, e o s. Oh yeah.
Dan Lok:
Yes, yes. Which I have also interviewed on the show.
Matt Klepac:
Okay, great. Brilliant. So I’m a big believer. We’re a big believer. And, and, um, how have we hired? Well, I think, I think the fundamental reason why we have such an amazing team from, from, you know, um, throughout the entire spectrum of our, of our company Yeah. Um, is because we, we hire, uh, we retain, we fire, we promote based on our core values. That’s it. Right? You’re measured by that. Your, your job description, what you’re doing on a daily basis, your resume, that’s table stakes, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what we’re talking about is, are you living up to those core values? Are you going to live up to those core values? Can you, and we go through a pretty robust, uh, hiring process. Um, you’re gonna meet with about five people before you, um, come back to me. Um, and there’s gonna be a, a huge, so
Dan Lok:
Do you do multiple? Like do they interview, like said the first interview with two, or three people, a second and third kind of thing?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. It, it, it’s, in fact, because of our scale right now, I can still handle being the first. So I’m typically the first layer, uh, interesting. And so, so, uh, that’s not always gonna be the case, but hopefully we have a good process in place, um, by then. But, but for now, I’m the first layer and then it goes to two, um, the next meeting is with two, um, executives, executives. The next, the next meeting is with, um, two others within the organization. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and then there’s usually one more follow up that is, that is, uh, driven, um, from the, the, the meetings of four basically mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, where there’s, there’s an exercise, there’s a follow up, there’s a request that we ask of them mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, so it’s, it’s, it comes from them. And then there’s the last one, which swings back to me. Um, and a lot of debate internally and, and we move fast. I mean, those things are all gonna happen in one week, but, but ultimately, um, it comes back to me and that’s when the kind of rubber meets the road when it comes to the values. And my request to them in, in meeting one is here are our values. I’m not gonna tell you what they are, I’m not gonna tell what they mean. I’m not gonna tell you what they stand for. I want you to tell me what they stand for
Dan Lok:
And what it means to you. Right.
Matt Klepac:
Kind of thing. What it means to you. Yeah. What does it mean to you? And so that’s very important. Um, and that’s, that’s,
Dan Lok:
So you do that in the first interview.
Matt Klepac:
Do that in the first interview. Beautiful.
Dan Lok:
I love that. Yeah. Yep. Because we do the same thing. So I I can resonate that. So that’s good. Very nice.
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. And I, I think we’ve just been blessed, man. We, we just, we just have some amazing people. There’s, Austin is a great place to build a business. Um, for sure, for sure. Um, but now we have, we have people in Houston, in Nashville and South America. I mean, we’re, we’re building, um, a global team and, and they’re just, they’re just all rock stars. I mean, you can’t do this without, without them. I mean the, the product and technology is, is a component, but it’s the people that drive the success and, and it’s the people that are listening to the customer. Uh, and that’s really important.
Dan Lok:
Yeah. And, and it seems to me that, uh, with Vertifi, once you, once you, you’re helping them, of course data automation, I mean there, who knows what are the needs they might have. Right? Right. Like, from there, that’s why we can add value, right?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. Yeah. When you talk about like, uh, lifetime value of the customer, and you know, for us it starts with, Hey, let’s just add value. Let’s just add more value. And that results in positive N r R for us. Yes. To be where we’re at and to have a positive N r R business and to have a, a, uh, a gross retention higher than 98%, you know, at our stage. That’s
Dan Lok:
Incredible. Incredible.
Matt Klepac:
That’s, that’s why though, you know, and it’s because we’re, we’re adding value. We’re leaning on the, our values, um, and, and leaning into the customer from that perspective
Dan Lok:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, and it’s a very, very sticky product.
Matt Klepac:
<laugh>. A hundred percent. A hundred percent one. Yeah. Yeah.
Dan Lok:
Like once they start using, unless like the couple clients, like you said, like during covid, they actually went under, that’s a different story. Like, that’s different story, not, no, that’s not within our control. But most businesses, if they’re gonna be around and they’re, they are growing, they’re growing sales. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they need vitify.
Matt Klepac:
Correct. What
Dan Lok:
We will see you already in it. Like they can’t run it without,
Matt Klepac:
What we will often see is they’re, they’re transitioning from one marketing automation platform to another as they scale. Yes. Or, you know, cuz HubSpot historically has been such a great SMB focused, uh, yeah, yeah. You know, application, whereas, you know, Marketo really takes over in the mid-market very robust. Yeah. And so we’ll see those transitions, but those transitions, um, enable us to continue to add more value. Right. We’re gonna help you transition, let’s migrate you from HubSpot to Marketo or, or NetSuite to Salesforce, and let’s continue to help you flourish. And, and so we kind of sit in between as that glue, which is nice.
Dan Lok:
Yeah. We, we mind the conversation. I, I will Brian from HubSpot, he said, uh, of the, of course they have certain sectors and avatars they focus on, but HubSpot also want, I mean, of course, you know, they compete with and
Matt Klepac:
They are Yeah.
Dan Lok:
Yeah. And they are, they, they’re upgrading that. They want to be able to take it from like Yeah. One like mom and pop one person all the way to a big massive corporation wanna be able be able to do all that. Right. That’s which I think they’re heading that direction.
Matt Klepac:
I think they’re, they’re totally heading in that direction. But, but I, I know it because I see it in the evidence. Like we work with a lot of HubSpot, um, rev ops agencies. Yeah. Rev ops, yes. Um, or service partners and, and they’re offering service and we, they sell, they white label, they sell our automation Yes. Um, through that. And, and we’re seeing through them, them saying, Hey, HubSpot’s, the, the growth of of mid-market enterprise coming into their application is huge and huge. Yeah. And, and that’s where our, our product really sits. So they’re, they’re kind of, um, rev ops, um, uh, platform within, uh, within HubSpot works great for the mid-market, I mean the, the SMB market. And then we can help supplement that for the enterprises as they scale as well.
Dan Lok:
Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Uh, can you maybe talk a little bit about like what’s the, the, the milestone you accomplished since the kind of the beginning of the company, like through the last few years?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah, sure, sure. Um, I’ll talk through a little bit of that. So I think there, it’s interesting, right? Going from transitioning service to product, taking a product business from zero to five, five to a million plus, you know, uh, those all have different stages. Yeah. And so those milestones of revenue, um, I think all have kind of this, um, different focus on different aspects of what we need from the team. So there was a different team going from zero to five and then five, 500, and then 500 to a million million, um, and then a million to two. And, and now taking it to that kind of, um, $10 million, um, threshold is very important as we kind of transition through that. Um, and those have been big, big milestones. I like to look at the business as, hey, different phases, right? 2018 to 2020 was kind of phase 1, 20 20 to 2022, um, was phase two.
And really Q3 of 22 was start of phase three. And, and it went from, hey, we’re providing a connection, we’re providing an integration, uh, to, we’re providing a, or integration and kind of cleansing engine with some analytics and reporting built in. Now we’re providing a rev op automation suite with integration, orchestration, automation cleansing and hygiene and reporting capabilities on top of that. And, and, and phase three s off to a good start, right. Record breaking Q3 and Q4 and, and looking to go into, uh, 2023 with that as well. Um, so, so good milestones for us since, since 2018, really, um, crossing different thresholds, some steps back from time to time, right. When in 2020, taking a couple steps back to take, take f more steps forward. Um, you know, and, and that’s kind of where we’re at.
Dan Lok:
I think also in the whole venture capital world, a lot, a lot of doom and gloom, a lot of the, a lot of VCs, they’re a bit more kind of sitting just kind of waiting, what, what’s going on? Uh, I think Ivan and I wave a different tick. Yep. I think any tech companies, if they’ve survived through covid, it tells us a lot. Yeah. Right? So we are actually looking to, to increase our investment to invest in more companies in the next couple years. Uh Yep. A lot of people, they are, well, I guess, I think, I think one buffer said that you want to be, you want to be, you want to be greedy when other people are fearful, right? That’s right. Yeah. That’s exactly what it is. Uh, yeah, totally. And we don’t see that cuz we back like great founders like yourself, right? Yep. Uh, for our listeners, let’s say they’re founders like yourself, uh, what advice would you have for them now you build ver up to this point?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah. Um, so, uh, I would say first and foremost, be the customer and be with the customer. Okay. So, so put yourself in the customer’s seat, be the customer, um, what are they needing? Listen to the customer as c e o, right? I can’t be on every customer call. Um, but I’ll tell you this, I’m listening to every customer call recording. Mm-hmm. Um, and I’m watching every um, slack channel that we have that’s talking about the customer. Mm-hmm. Learn what the customer needs, um, listen to the customer, do less talking, do more listening. Um, I would say, I would say that is, that is very, very important. Um, number two, invest in the people. Uh, you know, if you’re just starting a business, if you’re invest in people, um, that that means sure, um, investing in them and giving ’em what they need to be successful. Um, but just be there for your people. Be there for your team, listen to them. Um, and on top of that, build a team that’s different than you, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> diversity is critical. Yes. Um, you know, and, and so, so bring on people that are diverse and, and have different opinions than you, um, across the board that’s gonna be really, really smart, uh, for you to do. And then lastly, I would say sharpen your emotional intelligence. <laugh>,
Dan Lok:
Definitely
Matt Klepac:
<laugh>. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s really important, uh, to be self-aware, uh, and to see as c e o one of my biggest jobs is to try to see around corners, right? Yes. Um, and you have to have really high emotional intelligence to do that. And you, you ultimately, um, you need to invest in that. Uh, and you need to invest in being intellectually honest with that emotional intelligence. Um, you know, have people around you, business coaches, and those that you trust, uh, that are gonna speak truth into what you can’t see your blind spots mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and then listen to what they say mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, that’s very, very important to do. Um, so I would, I would say those things are, are critical.
Dan Lok:
Great. And of course, seeking advisors, listening to mentors big time and people have like a hun a hundred percent. And it’s is we huge believer in that. So, um, for listeners, if they wanna find a little bit more about Vertifi, what’s the best way to get in touch with you? Or maybe even get in touch with the company?
Matt Klepac:
Yeah, so, so vitify.com is, uh, is a great place to go, uh, uh, and Vertify data, um, on Twitter, Vertify data on LinkedIn. Those are great areas to get in touch, uh, with all of us. You can email me [email protected]. I love hearing from listeners and, and anybody interested talking about, uh, rev ops and automation, whether you’re interested in the product, whether we can help you with that, doesn’t matter. Um, I love meeting entrepreneurs, and talking to ’em. Um, and, and yeah, if you’re in Austin or, or in the Bay Area or in Denver, uh, I, I’m there quite a bit, uh, with partners and stuff, so would love to meet in person. So email me and, and we can go from there. Mm-hmm.
Dan Lok:
<affirmative>, if you wanna geek out on web ops, you know what to do now, <laugh>. That’s
Matt Klepac:
Right.
Dan Lok:
You know what to do. Well, Matt, thank you for being on the show. It’s, it’s been great to hear how you’re doing. I know in 2023, you’re gonna kick some ass. That’s right. Uh, look forward. Um, anything that we can do the added value to help, just let us know. We are always here to help.
Matt Klepac:
Thanks. I really appreciate it. Thanks for this. And, and, uh, I think one of the things, I’ll leave you with this, you guys, um, showed us very early on that you, you care about the people mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and, and you invest in the people. You said that already on here. But, but yes. Um, it’s, it’s critical and um, and we appreciate that. We appreciate you from that perspective. Um, and I know if I email you guys or need anything, um, you’re there for that. So I really appreciate it.
Dan Lok:
Definitely. Thank you. Thank you, man. Appreciate it.
Matt Klepac:
Thank you.
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